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Post by Servo on Jul 5, 2012 15:35:19 GMT -5
Looking over the new edition, and it is not as big a departure from 5th as I had thought. The "Pancake Edition" was either released to gauge reaction to vast changes, or a very elaborate wishlist. I am going to list changes I have noticed, and give my thoughts about the changes. Let's hear everyone else's thoughts, too. MOVEMENT PHASE- Beasts and Cavalry have increased movement to 12"
- Bikes and Skimmers can only move 12" maximum (they get increased movement in other phases to compensate)
- Fliers have their own new rules; they are not just Fast Skimmers anymore
For the most part, Movement has not changed much. The differences for Movement will come with Morale, Characters, and the such. More on that later. |
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Post by Servo on Jul 5, 2012 16:12:17 GMT -5
SHOOTING PHASE- Pre-measuring range: You measure first, and if no weapon is in range you pick a new target.
- Snap Shots: Heavy Weapons can shoot even if the model moved, but with BS1 (template, blast, and ordnance cannot do it)
- "... the effect movement has on shooting is applied on a model-to-model basis." Does this mean a unit can move, but as long as the Heavy Weapon model did not move he can still fire at full effect?
- Wound Allocation is now to the closest models to the shooter. In addition, you do not designate a single shot to each model; the CLOSEST model keeps taking shots until it is DEAD or you are out of shots. That model takes whatever saves are relevant to that individual model (cover, invul, etc)
- Look Out Sir!: If a character is taking a Wound, it can be allocated to another model on a 4+ roll.
- Forests and other units have been reduced to 5+ Cover Save.
- Focus Fire: If a target unit has models in varying levels of cover, you can say you are only shooting at models in specific cover (e.g. 2 models in open, 2 models with a 4+ cover save. If you Focus Fire to the open guys, they do not get a cover save at all) However, now ONLY those guys aimed at can be hit.
Wound Allocation is a little confusing, and will go MUCH slower. I think once we get the hang of it, I might like it. Sounds more realistic, and a little like 2nd Edition. I really like Look Out Sir (balances allocating wounds to closest model a little) and Focus Fire. I think this edition will be better for shooting than previous editions. Snap Shots will help Orks a lot, because not much difference between BS1 and BS2. Instant Death is the same; which sucks because the "Pancake Edition" way of doing it was better. And, worst of all: NO EVASION TABLE! I really think To-Hit modifiers are necessary, and should have been incorporated.
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Post by Servo on Jul 5, 2012 16:52:27 GMT -5
ASSAULT PHASE- Overwatch: The loved/hated rule from 2nd Edition is back! When a unit is charged, the assaultED unit can take Snap Shots at the assaultING unit (Snap Shots are at BS1). Unlike in 2nd Edition, you do not sacrifice any of your own turn by shooting in Overwatch; it is just a new part of the Assault Phase.
- All charge ranges are 2D6". So, charges are variable AND a standard roll. Beasts and Cavalry no longer get an increased charge range.
- Jump Packs allow you to reroll charge range
- Pile-Ins are 3" and happen after every Initiative step.
- Wound Allocation is to closest model (like in Shooting Phase)
- Our Weapons Are Useless: If you are locked in combat with a unit you literally cannot damage, you can choose to fail your Morale Check.
- Secondary Targets/Disordered Charge: You can assault multiple units at once, but you lose the +1 Attack for charging.
I like Overwatch: more proof that Shooting will be more on par with Assault than in past editions. Possible charge ranges of 12" will force a lot of people to choose carefully if they want to shoot or attempt an assault. Our Weapons Are Useless should help those situations when a Dreadnought assualts a unit that is incapable of penetraing its armour (one of my favorite tactics). Disordered Charges will probably see lots of ugly green walls charging 4 units at once. Ugh!
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Post by Servo on Jul 5, 2012 17:07:48 GMT -5
MORALE- Regrouping can be attempted if you have 25% of your unit alive, unlike 50% in past editions. Also, you can still attempt to regroup if you are under 25%, but you need to roll a double-1 (Insane Heroism).
This is the only difference I saw, but I like the ability to use Insane Heroism more.
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Post by erontherelentless on Jul 6, 2012 6:39:37 GMT -5
This doesn't sound too bad. Although, it does sound like the games will take longer to play even after we have an understanding of the new rules. Do you know if miniature market has the rule book for 25% off?
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Post by Sil Odan on Jul 6, 2012 8:25:02 GMT -5
Glad to see overwatch is back; I was very disappointed at first when I heard rumors that it would only be used when being charged and allows the assaulted units to get their shots in first (bad news for my boyz!), but I feel much better now knowing it's at BS1.
I like Snap Shots. I can finally move my Lootas squad and still take some shots. And with the minor difference in ballistic skill, it's not so bad!
But...when using Snap Shots against an assaulting unit, how is this done? Will the unit be allowed to make their assault move first, and then the shots are worked out? Or are the shots worked out before the assaulting unit closes in? It would suck if my assault roll only allows 3 guys to get into base-to-base contact but the first 5 guys in the squad get killed before they can even make it.
Focus Fire: like it! Makes sense! If I'm shooting at a bunch of guys, some of which are hiding in cover and some of which are out in the open...well, duh!
The lack of Evasion Table is a huge hit; I was REALLY hoping this would make it into the new rules. If you are playing an army such as Eldar, I would expect that those wiry little tree-huggers would be much harder to hit than a lumbering, dim-witted Ork. Or a Land Raider that's right in front of a model and hasn't moved. GW is full of morons for dropping the ball on this one.
Our Weapons Are Useless: Ah, yes...I enjoyed engaging units with my Kans knowing full well they couldn't do squat to my guys. This one makes me a little sad...but again, makes perfect sense.Disordered Charges will probably see lots of ugly green walls charging 4 units at once. Ugh!
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Post by tiamat on Jul 6, 2012 10:21:52 GMT -5
>i heard rumor that there's more emphasis on psykers (like Dark Millenium days), is this true?<
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Post by Servo on Jul 6, 2012 12:03:40 GMT -5
>i heard rumor that there's more emphasis on psykers (like Dark Millenium days), is this true?< Yes, it is true. I haven't got to that section yet for the breakdowns. The next section is Special Rules, and it is LONG, so I decided to wait until I had more time. My understanding is that shots are worked out after Assualt is declared, but before moved. It means if you are 3" away, you may want to roll a 6 or more because you might lose your front guys to enemy fire. I like it because I always felt bad for IG and Tau, who cannot take an assault very well. Now, at least they can react with their guns before they get their asses kicked. |
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Post by Servo on Jul 6, 2012 12:06:09 GMT -5
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Post by Servo on Jul 6, 2012 16:06:33 GMT -5
SPECIAL RULESI am only listing new or altered rules.- Acute Senses: Now a reroll to see what table edge you arrive on in if Outflanking.
- Adamantium Will: +1 to roll for Deny the Witch (see Psyker section)
- And They Shall Know No Fear: Same, plus immune to Fear.
- Armourbane: 2D6 for Armour Penetration.
- Blind: If Initiative Test is failed, WS and BS reduced to 1 for whole turn.
- Concussive: Unsaved Wound reduces WS to 1 for turn (this is what Thunder Hammers currently do).
- Crusader: Extra D6 for Run (take highest) and add D3 to Sweeping Advance.
- Deep Strike: Same, but the Mishap Table has shifted: 1=Terrible Accident, 2-3=Misplaced, 4-6=Delayed.
- Fear: If Ld Test is failed, WS1 for the Assault sub-phase.
- Feel No Pain: 5+ now. Still cannot be used against Instant Death, but can be used against AP1 or 2 and all other Wounds.
- Fleet: Now is a reroll for Run and Charge.
- Fleshbane: Always wounds on 2+.
- Furious Charge: +1 Strength only.
- Gets Hot: Vehicles now take a Glancing Hit on roll of 1-3.
- Hammer of Wrath: Additional attack in Assault at model's Strength, no AP, I10 (wow!).
- Infiltrate: Same, but cannot Assault on 1st turn.
- Interceptor: May take a shot at a Deep Striking unit right after they arrive, DURING ENEMY'S MOVEMENT PHASE, but cannot shoot during your next turn.
- It Will Not Die: If less than starting wounds, regain a wound on 5+.
- Jink: 5+ save if moving; 4+ save it moved Flat Out or Turbo Boosts.
- Independent Character: Same, plus a squad he has joineed can always attempt to Regroup.
- Missile Lock: Missiles scatter D6 instead of 2D6.
- Monster Hunter: Reroll To-Wound against Monstrous Creatures.
- Night Vision: Ignores Night Fighting effects.
- Poisoned: Same, plus if S is higher or equal to T, can reroll To Wound rolls.
- Preferred Enemy: Same, but applies to Shooting as well.
- Rage: +2 Attacks on charge (no more running toward closest enemy).
- Rampage: +D3 Attacks on charge.
- Scout: Same, but cannot Assault on 1st turn.
- Shred: Rerolls failed To Wound rolls (this is what Lightning Claws do now).
- Shrouded: Counts Cover as +2 better than normal.
- Skyfire: Shoots at Fliers with normal BS.
- Slow & Purposeful: Cannot Run, Turbo Boost, Sweeping Advance, or fire Overwatch (no more moving as if in Difficult Terrain).
- Smash: AP2 in Assualt, plus may halve their Attacks to double Strength.
- Sniper: Same, but roll of 6 To Hit is a Precision Shot.
- Soul Blaze: 4+ roll at end of turn keeps target on fire for next turn with D3 S4, AP5 hits.
- Strafing Run: Pinning and +1 BS against non-Flier/Skimmer targets.
- Strikedown: Models hit halve Initiative and move like in Difficult terrain for 1 turn.
- Supersonic: Moves Flat Out 18-36".
- Swarm: Ignore Difficult Terrain and double wounds from Templates and Blasts (no more +1 to Cover Save).
- Unwieldy: Weapon with I1 (this is what Power Fists do now).
- Vector Dancer: Vehicle may pivot 90 degrees at end of move.
- Vector Strike: When Swooping, model makes D3+1 hits at model's S and AP3 against any unit flown over during Movement.
- Zealot: Fearless and Hatred.
Deep Strike is now more survivable! Everyone expect some Terminator enemas this Edition! Fleet is a big change. At first I thought Tyranids and Scarabs just got a lot slower, but with the new Movement for Beasts I am not sure. "Feel No Pain" is cruelly named, because I am betting Necron and DE players are in pain now (sorry Eron and Ghostwheel). With the no AP restrictions, maybe its not so bad. I really like that ALL Special Rules for weapons, troops, vehicles are in one place and have only one meaning.
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Post by Sil Odan on Jul 6, 2012 16:15:46 GMT -5
Scouts can no longer assault on the 1st turn? Shennanigans! Shennanigans!
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Post by Servo on Jul 6, 2012 19:16:08 GMT -5
The lack of Evasion Table is a huge hit; I was REALLY hoping this would make it into the new rules. If you are playing an army such as Eldar, I would expect that those wiry little tree-huggers would be much harder to hit than a lumbering, dim-witted Ork. Or a Land Raider that's right in front of a model and hasn't moved. GW is full of morons for dropping the ball on this one. I know, it would have been so simple and great! Maybe lose the table and just make a list of modifiers: -1 if Fast; +1 if target did not move; +1 if a Tank or bigger; etc. I know it is just a game, but when an entire Devastator Squad misses a Tank 6" away and Land Speeders can be shot out of the air when they are moving fast, it can be a little... exasperating? Yeah, that's a good word (By the way, this was a real game example). |
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Post by Sil Odan on Jul 9, 2012 7:35:19 GMT -5
I know it is just a game, but when an entire Devastator Squad misses a Tank 6" away and Land Speeders can be shot out of the air when they are moving fast, it can be a little... exasperating? Yeah, that's a good word (By the way, this was a real game example). |
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Post by ghostwheel11 on Jul 12, 2012 15:30:01 GMT -5
Rage: +2 Attacks on charge (no more running toward closest enemy).
EEK! no more pounding on drop pods for death company...although with +2 attacks they might get lucky now.
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Post by Servo on Jul 12, 2012 17:09:39 GMT -5
UNIT TYPES- Bikes & Jetbikes: Hammer of Wrath; Jink; charges not slowed by Difficult Terrain, but if assaulting enemy behind Barricades will treat it as Dangerous Terrain; Turbo-Boosting is now done as a "Run" at 12" for Bikes, 24" for Jetbikes, 36" for Eldar Jetbikes.
- Eldar Jetbikes can move 2D6" in Assault phase even if not assaulting.
- Artillery: Now have T7 and 2 Wounds.
- Jump Units: Deep Strike; may choose to use Jump Packs in Movement phase to move 12" or in Assault Phase to reroll charge distance and get Hammer of Wrath.
- Jet Pack Units: Deep Strike; may move 2D6" in Assault Phase even if they do not assault.
- Monstrous Creatures: Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash.
- Beasts: Fleet; Move Through Cover; 12" movement; ignore Difficult Terrain in all circumstances.
- Cavalry: Fleet; Hammer of Wrath; 12" movement; not slowed by Difficult Terrain but treated as Dangerous Terrain.
- Flying Monstrous Creature: Fear; Hammer of Wrath; Move Through Cover; Relentless; Smash; Vector Strike; plus a whole host of rules depending upon if the model is "Gliding" or "Swooping".
I know it was sometimes difficult to remember who could shoot and how many times depending on speed of a Bike/Jetbike/Vehicle. I like that extra movement like Turbo Boosts happen in the Shooting Phase now, because now you KNOW that you can either shoot or gain extra movement that turn. Nice fix, GW! I think this Hammer of Wrath rule will make Bikes and Cavalry more worth-while. I know I will have to consider only 6" movement for my Assault Marines so I can slap some Eldar and Tyranids at I10! Eldar (and Dark Eldar) Jetbikes are CRAZY FAST now! Beasts are going to be a pain. No where to hide from Scarabs now.
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